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2008-09-03 17:22:30

Changes to Xelors and to the AP/MP formula

For some time now we've been working on a new formula for the dodging and removal of AP/MP.
Here are the main principles we'd like to respect with our new formula:

- With equal wisdom, the probability of dodging a loss of AP/MP should be 1/2.

- During a PvP fight, a character with equal wisdom to his adversary should not be able to take more than 50% of their AP.

- The game's larger monsters (Bosses, mainly) shouldn't be able to have more than 50% of their AP removed (when faced with an adversary suited to the bosses level) without a specific tactic being used, based on a reduction in their dodging rate which happens over a number of turns.

- Spells which reduce a small amount of AP/MP should still be effective.

- Classes which have a limited capacity for AP/MP reduction shouldn't be penalized by a formula that's too restrictive.

- Builds based completely on AP/MP reduction should still be effective in PvM and PvP.

- investing in wisdom should remain profitable and attractive for both reduction and dodging [of AP/MP]

- the formula should remain relatively simple to calculate in your head so that the viability of a loss of AP/MP can be quickly estimated without the need to spend 3 years studying for a degree in mathematics.

In most cases, we feel that removing all of the AP/MP or even more than 75% of the AP/MP of an adversary isn't normal.
Removing just one AP/MP from an adversary is sufficient to completely destabilize a tactic.
The massive reduction of MP seems problematic to us, some classes can move using AP and all classes can attempt some defensive/offensive actions even when they're unable to move.

However, a massive reduction of AP/MP remains a tactic that we feel brings diversity to the game.
We don't want to make this tactic less effective, but we feel at the moment it's too easy to remove large amounts of AP/MP without constraint.

After our preliminary tests, the following formula appears to meet our needs:

Probability to make someone loose a AP/MP = Da / Dt * Pr / 2
With:

* Da: dodge of the attacker
* Dt: dodge of the target
* Pr: percentage of AP/MP that the target still has

The resulting probability is limited to a 10% minimum and a 90% maximum.

%resistance to a loss of AP/MP is handled like bonuses from wisdom
(a decrease of 50% corresponds to having 200 wisdom less)

Each attempt at dodging a loss is calculated separately, if a spell causes 3 AP to be removed, three dodging attempts will be calculated.

This formula means that each consecutive attempt to remove AP/MP from a target will be more difficult.
It also gives characters that aren't able to dodge AP/MP loss a progressively better chance of doing so.
It also means wisdom is still important in dodging.

This progressively better chance of dodging AP/MP loss allows us to keep a formula that's very effective for the removal of a moderate amount of AP/MP but forces those players who wish to base their entire game on AP/MP loss to have a large amount of wisdom and to weaken as much as possible the base probability of their adversary dodging AP/MP loss.

We're conscious of the fact that tactics based on removing AP are only effective on some monsters when a large amount of AP is removed.
An important factor is that monsters don't have a large enough variety of spells (compared to players) for us to be able to change their behavior when faced with a moderate loss of AP/MP.
Technical constraints relating to AI stop us from developing monsters with more than 4 spells (we make exceptions for certain larger monsters). We don't want to expand the range of spells of each monster.
However, we will try to take into consideration this tactic as early as possible in the conception of future monsters, to allow us to provide you with challenges where AP reduction is less effective.

Balancing of Xelor Spells

Xelors are the most effective class at removing AP and we want to change this aspect of the game.
We appreciate the diversity of specific builds (notably those builds exclusively designed for removing AP).
We feel that at the present time, Xelors are far too effective at removing AP - equally well in PvM as they are in PvP
The majority of classes have almost no viable alternative when faced with the massive AP loss caused by a Xelor in PvP.

With the new formula that we're currently testing, this problem isn't entirely settled, since the formula remains very permissive, and places a large importance on the wisdom of the attacker and the target.
We'd like Xelors to keep the possibility, in certain conditions, of taking a large amount of AP from their adversaries.

We've decided to tackle this problem by offering an alternative to the other classes to allow them to protect themselves to a certain extent from the massive loss of AP caused by a Xelor.

We plan to impose a minimum range of 3 squares on the majority of the AP reducing spells of Xelors (Time Theft, Slow Down, Hourglass and Frostbite)
It is amongst other things this minimum range that will offer the Xelor's adversaries the opportunity of dodging some of the loss of AP.
In concrete terms, at long range (more than 10), a Xelor will not be able to effectively use all of his AP reducing spells, which means the massive loss of AP from distance will be limited.

At short range, the Xelor will be incapable of using the majority of its AP reducing spells without being forced to distance itself at least 3 squares from its adversary.
At mid-range (3-8 squares) the Xelor will be able to use all of his AP reducing spells.
For the time being we've chosen this approach because the Xelor has two teleportation spells, one of which (Flight) has a very small AP cost, which will allow the Xelor to get away from a target that's too close without too much difficulty, before being able to more easily reduce the AP of its target.

By doing this, we're giving the other classes a chance to learn how to adapt to the range and positioning of a Xelor to give them an alternative tactic in PvP.

Here are the changes we plan to test shortly:

- Slow Down - minimum range of 3 squares

- Frostbite - minimum range of 3 squares, maximum range of 6 squares

-Time Theft - minimum range of 3 squares, range non-modifiable, maximum range of 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 or 8 squares depending on the level of the spell

-Hourglass - minimum range of 3 squares, usage limited to once per target per turn (no longer once per turn, so it can now be used on multiple targets in the same turn)

-Xelor's Dial: maximum range of the summon modifiable to 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 squares according to the level of the spell. The dial's spell goes from 4 to 6 range.

(Spell points will be given back.)

After our internal testing, these changes are, for the moment, conclusive. Xelors can, with difficulty, remove large amounts of AP/MP over the first few turns, but can still remove massive amounts of AP thanks to their spells that remove resistance to AP loss, if they employ (over an average of 4 turns) a tactic based on removing the AP and resistance to loss of AP of their target.

We know that these tests aren't enough to determine if these changes are correctly balanced and viable for the other classes.

These changes will be available on the test server in the weeks to come. We will closely follow your thoughts before refining these changes.

Thanks to Jiri for the translation

By: lichen / comments (159)
Tags : Xelors AP/MP Formula

Are you intend to kill the interest on xelors? I think you are looking only PVP mode and high levels and forgeting the other players. In my opinion will be very hard to evolve xelor at the low levels. Please, don't do this. I have a xelor lvl 37 and if you do so, i don't play with him anymore, I'll prefer my iop and osamodas.

By: AmazonBoy - (2008-09-03 18:53:10)

Firstly, saying Xelors abuse their skills in PvM is not only silly but totally misplaced. On Imps there is a long discussion and one of the results is that there are nearly no instances when a Xelor would even attempt to get a monster to 0-1 AP, and secondly that all dungeons can be done without a Xelor. So the PvM point of few lacks any substance. So let's just admit this is all about PvP.
The thing that has been eft out completely is "feasibility" of removing AP. Xelor's AP spells cost quite some AP. Slowdown may be cheap, but if I have to use Flight once or often twice to cast it, it will be a 3-5 AP cost to perhaps take 2 AP if I am lucky. Now that I am there, I might consider casting something like Time Theft. At 4 AP with a chance of most likely taking 0 AP, it is no longer worth using this spell because it doesn't even do any damage. Otherwise I'll end up using 7-9 AP to maybe drain 2-3 AP. This is in absolutely no relation. Considering this nerf being irrelevant for PvM, I'd like to forward the suggestion of others: add AP/MP resistance to shields. Thank you

By: Blimy - (2008-09-03 19:02:14)

if this nerf is relevant for pvp only, why dont you consider changing the spells for pvp only? or make some anti-xelor shields for other classes with ap/mp resistance :)

By: k-o-R-n - (2008-09-03 19:41:37)

If you're a class that fights best with a two-handed weapon, then a shield is not an option.

By: XorthaCypher - (2008-09-03 19:44:39)

So its no longer worth it playing a xelor unless you're 150+?
I play a 120 int xelor, and I feel the min range imposed on us is a bit too much. I never cared about time theft, but sandglass, slowdown & frostbite with a min range of 3?
Not only did you decrease the range of slow down, but implemented a min range. And as for sandglass, multiple times a turn may only be handy in a couple of situations.
I understand the massive ap rape barrage people are faced with, but isn't the new formula enough for you guys? People who have no idea about other xelor builds ,but wis ones, will always say xelors are overpowered. PLayers would normally call a xelor "ap rape bot" or something along the lines. Have you ever seen anyother xelor build than a lvl 190 wis xelor? I don't give a rat's nugget about raping 10 ap, hell 3-4 ap is what I could normally do. But now, this new system & changes to spells will only be helpful to those epic level players.
As for me, I only have 60-70% depending on my equips. So, to rape ap will be nearly impossible, seeing as most players my level have the same ap%.
This update only focuses on high level PvP/PvM.

I highly doubt anyone else cares about this but the class themselves, why? Well, why should I care if anyother class gets nerfed? hmm...
Im sure I'll get quoted and that person will say Im wrong, but hey, I couldn't care less. I'm just expressing my feelings toward this changes.

~Pin

By: oldnite - (2008-09-03 19:54:28)

Ya'll express your feelings to this as much as possible. No body is gonna care. I play a female lvl 191 xelor and a male lvl 34 xelor. I tell you, I know how it feels for both a epic lvl player and a low lvl player. I like the idea of raping ppl off their ap. Its real nice, but to be honest considering all the classes and their spells. The xelor just rapes too much. There are only a few classes that have ap/mp shields and majority of classes dont even have ap/mp reduction like xelors do. I think these changes will bring a balance to all classes. As range is a problem for all other classes before these ideas were brought up, so why should we keep the xelor so special and powerful. I mean this is a good thing, we players of xelors will finally get some challenges to our builds and class. there are things in these brought up ideas that I really think could be changed. I think xelors should get a decrease in range for our ap reduction spells but not as low as range 3. I think instead, they should have an exchange. Make it like this. All ap reduction spells start off with 1-2 ap cost. The more we lvl up the spells that takes away ap, the longer range we get, but the more it costs to take away ap. So it restrains xelors to use ap reduction spells more than once within one turn. Make the ap reduction max 3, and a 4 ap reduction on critical hit.

By: Liungra - (2008-09-03 20:21:12)

I strongly agree with oldnite. If you reduce the capacity of a xelor taking Ap then you are taking away the whole purpose of being a Xelor. The only real ap stealer's are the Wisdom xelors and also a bit chance xelors but they reduce a lot less. The rest such as intel, Strength , and Agility barely take away 3 ap, if they gain some throughout the battle. and Also i would like to add that in most donjons creatures, Bosses and just basic creatures have a high dodging of Ap, so reducing it won't help in anyway. And after there will still be complaints about some characters being too strong later, and it will result in decreasing the strength of all the class from there strong aspects.
If the whole idea of xelors being able to take away less Ap is still followed through , I strongly urge then to at least upgrade xelors attacks .

By: Jameson-The-Jam - (2008-09-03 20:26:58)

Hi all, stop all modifications, for all class.Please.

By: TheLordOfDestruction - (2008-09-03 20:32:20)

If u take away xelor´s capability to ap rape, them they´ll be useless and defenseless against other classes unless they r high lv (150+), as well wortheless in group, couse their only use will be devotion and it´s only 2 turns. The ap rape ability it´s what makes people choose xelor´s couse u gotta admit that they r weak, unlike other classes that have major spells upgrades has they lv, xelor´s have to improve the spells they already have (int based), for example the spell they learn at lv 80 water based with a high ap cost, or at lv 90 earth based with higher ap cost, that makes it dificult for xelor´s to evolve. Instead of taking away they great ap rape capability, u guys should improve the other classes ap loss resistance, making other classes have more resistance with more wis them xelor´s do. Couse honestly guys if u do that all xelor´s players will chooses osas couse they will be like the super class since they do (have spells) all that the other classes do with the ability to bring back a player(overpowered class), making almost impossible to kill an osa, couse even without the summons they r a real chalenge.

By: dmartins - (2008-09-03 20:39:48)

There is a good post on Imps that calculates the odds. With twice as much wisdom as your target, you'll need around 14 AP to take 5 AP out of 10. With similar wisdom to your target, be it player or monster, you don't even need to start taking AP. The funniest thing really is the minimum range on Slowdown. It is no doubt the most-used AP draining spell we Xelors have. Often it is also the only one we cast and do something else like hammer monsters for the rest of our AP. Now we have to cast Flight at least once in most situations, often twice to get 3 range, which is 1-4 AP cost, just to cast a 1 AP spell that using the new formula at best really takes 2 AP. How ridiculous.

By: Blimy - (2008-09-03 20:41:21)

By: dmartins - (2008-09-03 20:43:04)

I think that the minimum range for ap raping spells is just stupid for the reason that most monsters and players will always try to lock you and put you against a wall so you won't escape, and most of all ap raping spells is the only way of defence xelors really have and don't start with that "they have countering armours" thingy cuze I had a wisd xelor lvl 133 and with both armours on i could reflectmaximum 100 damage wich in higer lvls is equal to nothing since all monsters players do 300 damage over 4ap and more, xelors (execpt for int ones) don't have more then 1-2 spells based on their element and they're always for higer lvls only

By: sword-of-coins - (2008-09-03 21:03:19)

The main thing about Xelors is making other people lose AP. In truth Xelors are really good if your a tactical player. The PvM is a joke, that reason is so weak its amazing. I mean come on, some monsters have 2 hits such as lvl 24 cracrocks. They have 8/9 AP no xelor can remove a cracrock of its abilities. If Dofus hasn't noticed cracrocks are where non-members lvl up fast at high leveled. Xelors are already weak in the sense that they have very weak spells, the AP loss is the only reason why people want to be Xelors. What DOFUS is doing is basically telling people "If your not a member there is no reason of building an Xelor," and if dofus continues with this update I bet most non-members will never build Xelors again

By: Misturgi - (2008-09-03 21:25:21)

why u wanna kill the xelor class? ... Xelor = ap rape iop = damage feca = resistence etc etc ... with the new patch Xelor = nothing iop = damage feca = resistence ... u are going to lost lot of accounts with xelors (like the mine)

By: KiHaShinn - (2008-09-03 21:25:24)

By: Misturgi - (2008-09-03 21:25:29)

By: KiHaShinn - (2008-09-03 21:38:38)

This update screams "agi xelor". Also, I think they are trying to implement xelors to be more of a range class that has to fight through LoS problems to AP rape. I have a level 160 wis xelor that I pretty much never use, but I have always wanted to switch it to agi, but I never thought agi was comparable to wis. At least now, by nerfing xelors I will want to be something else than wis. Still, there aren't many good xelor builds out there and this nerf f*s xelors. Also, this is a major eni buff cuz ap rape was the best eni counter, so now lets all cry and moan nerf pl0x to enis because you can only stop them through ganging/ wrathing.

By: Archangel--- - (2008-09-03 21:39:04)

some guys: R>Tynril Lab lvl140+
me: invite me lvl157 xelor
(he did not invite me)
me: invite me plz, lvl157 xelor
some guys:no,sorry
me:can you tell me why?
some guys: we don't need xelor
me:can u tell me why?
(no answer)
me: did u have 1 xelor already?
some guys:no, just don't need

ok, this is a truth that i want say, i quite agree with Blimy,nobody need xelor for dungeon at all, many boss monster have 100%+ AP loss resistance and more than 10AP, however, xelor's feature is defense and AP loss i think, not damage, not heal, not rang and MP, so, xelor is weak in dungeon team now, if you do that, xelor will hard to cope normal monster in PVM.

the AP/MP resistance depend on wisdom, any class have it, xelor's AP spells is not so powerful with same lvl other class,

By: panho - (2008-09-03 21:42:31)

Sad, sad day. The Xelors are dead as a class now. Let's face it, Ankama has been downgrading Xelors for quite some time, and this seems to be the death blow. What is the purpose of having a class 'specialized' in taking AP if it cannot perform this task with a minimal competence then ?
Xelor builders love, above all, the tactics involved in AP taking and attacking their opponents at the right time. Not simple mindless 'hit-hit-hit', 500+DMG, done. Some say 'let's increase the damage' to compensate for the lost draining capability, but what is the point ? If someone wants pure and simple damage, then go for a Iop or Sadida instead. Why bother with Xelors ?
The idea of minimal range of taking AP is simply ridiculous. If a monster corners a Xelor - a real possibility in many of the crammed dungeons - then he/she is dead, unable to slow the attacker until other players come to help. How often are Xelors completely surrounded by monsters and they has to use their ability just avoid being massacred ? Flight is simply not an option, and teleport is a single chance only. Who will dare to get close to any big monster then ? So, no more to 'face-the-boss' while the rest of the team approaches. Let's run and run ! Fantastic (!)
Unfortunately, Ankama fails to understand that the game is not always about pvp. The usefulness of Xelors in dungeons has been already reduced and, given all this modifications, will be irrelevant from now on. What a shame for that praised 'team cooperation' they insist is so important to the gameplay. Just because *some* builds might be overpowered on 1x1 pvp you don't have to destroy the capability of a class to be effective in pvm, useful in team fight, helpful in dungeons, everything else.
Change your softcaps in wisdom, eliminate the possibility of having 800WIS builds, keep this sort of AP rape in check. Or add penalties to AP drain on pvp, either. Otherwise, Xelors having a hard time to stop just a couple of gobbal's bites are not worth of their name. So it is goodbye for me, and I think, a lot of other strategic players.

By: LordRedSky - (2008-09-03 21:46:53)

this is STUPID, first of all ive seen only changes made to xelors a lot lately, and its not cool, what r all xelors suppose to turn agility now to dodge a person and take ap?, and also our massive ap taking is what an XELOR does..., especially because we dont have a spell that hits massive damage like other classes. For example, when im vs a cra or srams, i try to take thier ap so they dont knock me out ina a matter of 2-3 hits, takeing up to what? 1k+ a turn..., our strongest in damage move would have to be xelor punch but most xelors arnt earth, it takes 6 ap to use, and our strength capes are extremely low. so really look at what your doing before u do anything

By: smelliertaco - (2008-09-03 22:16:05)

if yoiu think it well, now xelors will be more efficient in dungeons, since the ap loss resistance is not the same, look : if the monster have 70%ap dodge, and the xelor have 70% the monster resist will no longer be equal to 70% but it will be like 50%, giving a real chance for the xelor for ap raping it, (i know that it wont take more than 50%of the monsters ap, but it will turn it possible to at least rape it)

ps: sorry if i missundertood something and i'm talking nothing but sh*t =.=

By: coca-light-lemon - (2008-09-03 22:21:04)

Really bad idea... why ankama beter put all like 3 o 4 years skills 60% etc etc? to much player leave dofus for this "updates" - player - money for ankama corp. Cya tink that

By: TumbaCabezas - (2008-09-03 22:36:03)

very bad idea, the only reason i became a xelor was for the high range of spells and ability to remove AP, i mean i hardly see anyone taking away more than 3 or 4 AP ever depending if they r lucky or not and sometimes the spell misses, and reducing the range of spells just makes it easier for others, monsters and players alike, to kill us. xelors are not meant to be fighters they r the weakeners. there whole specialty is nothing but AP reducing and long distant spells i mean mages r supposed to attack from far away to weaken and kill enemies now itll be weaken then run like hell if it didnt work and get your arse kicked by anything you fight. i think xelors r fine just the way they r and nothing should be done about it

By: killyoupeople - (2008-09-03 22:45:47)

So you guys know, wis xelors are the only ones being "nerfed" right now. The only difference happening to this class is they have to stand farther away from the enemy, and it's more difficult to reduce ap AND mp down to 1~0. The reason they did this was because low level (lvl 60) wisdom xelors were killing lvl 100+ players as they can ap rape them to 0 ap each turn as the enemy runs up to get in range. While this now means in pvm, you need 2~3 xelors to reduce to 0, instead if just 1, it is promoting people from being a "pure" wisdom class. This means they want more people going pure int/agi/cha/str, or hybridizing. Before wisdom became a direct factor in the ap/mp equation, xelors were great damage dealers, and still are. It's just because people are obsessed with ap/mp raping opponents to 0 for "safety" (if you had a good eni or 2, you would be safe enough) that this happened. Wisdom xelors are NOT useless after this update, just they have to be farther back in the lines now, and not "tanking" the enemy (which wouldn't attack you at all, since its at 0ap). In most situations, the wis xelor is already fairly far back in the ranks with the eni, since no one wants it to die. Not much of a change, if you think about it.

By: aalsknaf - (2008-09-03 22:52:45)

I guess most of the complaints above are from Xelors...no surprise there lol. What other class has the ability to have a one-sided fight, where the opponent doesnt move? To the xelors: Balance your characters guys, and use a mix of other spells, weapons AND AP rape...seems very fair to me, and long overdue.

By: JackpotKid - (2008-09-03 22:57:12)

im a lvl 132 int/wis xelor...having spent about 2years to get that far as my real life is busy with work i dont get much time to play much. i find that xelors are getting so much nerfing. if this takes place im leaving dofus, im going to quite for good. i dont get much time to play, i dont have much kamas for good gear and i try hard to do what i cn. but if this comes into play im going to really find it hard to keep up with all the lvl 200s. my ap rape is all i really have as a pvp player. with this gone, im gone. ANKAMA it looks like you've just lost a good paying customer.

p.s. i dont have time to start again or the time to make kamas and change stats.

By: Hitetwo - (2008-09-03 23:16:05)

Ankama, are you affected by down syndrome?

By: thepwning - (2008-09-03 23:32:07)

Ive no xelors at all i hate the AP drains, but even for me this is too much i agree with the new formula, but the range nerfs on the AP drain spells makes many xelors near obsolete in my opinion.

By: BlondeHenkFace - (2008-09-03 23:33:07)

Xelors RIP..... But who cares, just we that use the xels....the other class can sleep now...u got what u want.

Ankama, shame on u..... Do u actually play dofus? I got a lvl 139 xel and a alt enu lvl 122 both useless now....

By: Viriat - (2008-09-03 23:37:24)

...WtF? why is all the nerfing happening to the xelors?. I dont see much of a problem with ap rape all you need is wisdom. If you kill the xelors spells like this then the sadis or eca flips will be the best class and then you will end up nerfing them too. All im saying is if you nerf the xelors like this then there is no longer a point to make a xelor ( you will just be a noob class).
PS. im not a xelor im an eni

By: ohasac - (2008-09-03 23:49:53)

...Wat will enus do now?they originally supposed to be mp rape....i have a agi enu, hes pure mp rape...well....i guess we will all see wat Ankama is planning with dofus....

By: joey-is-cool - (2008-09-03 23:54:03)

i'm not xelor, i'm eni and i always hate xelor's at pvp yes. but this is not fair. this is like taking away feca's shields or eni's heals. this is really very ridiculous.

By: Goetica - (2008-09-03 23:55:57)

I only have a few words to say. 1) Xelor's over ap rape. bottom line. so making them ap rape less is a definite good idea. 2) a feca's shields need to be less powerful. fighting one of them when they are low lv. is like trying to fight a super high class player because you do not get any damage in. 3) Srams should have more of a limiter with their invisibilty or if not at least give more of the other classes the ability to see them. Pretty much it. Every class has their strenghts but some are to much more than others. Also as long as were on the subject , Pandawas could use another earth and fire based spell as an intermediary before their lv. 70 and lv. 80 spells. They do not have a very good ability much of the time to fight while they are less that 70 or 80.

By: Srashinth-two - (2008-09-04 00:07:39)

hello

By: srmogori - (2008-09-04 00:16:13)

How Many More Nerfs Can Xelors Take?
I am an xelor but im seriously thinking og changeing or quitting beacuse of constant nerfing.
in the time ive been playing Fecas got 1 nerf,
Where as my xelor has had 4 and now this will be the 5th
And ur making osa's over powered
Were is the justuce...?

By: Fishing-Guru - (2008-09-04 00:17:36)

I´d like to add another comment about Ankama nerfing xelors, did u know that it´s impossible to a int char to kill a lv 100 feca regardeless of it´s lv?, imagine a feca using a full feudala set (gives 62% fire resist if i´m not wrong), plus glowing armor, + fecas shield (and plus resistances if u have an aligment and order), (i won´t add a pet that gives resistances couse it´s already enough ;)), also it´s almost impossible for any other classes to kill (unless ur an enu or sadi to unbiwitch), if u look at this sounds like fecas r overpowered, right?, nope wrong, couse that´s what they do they, resist. Now ankamas "new xelor" will always loose to a feca, couse his atks will do shit against a feca, the old xelor still had a chance to kill one, by ap raping him until shields wear off (by ap raping them i mean max 2aps couse they have a shield that increases ap resist loss).My point here is, if ur killing xelor´s only spells (ap rape spells, since the atk spells suck, that´s why xelor´s only atk with weapons),them u gotta kill all the other classes spells. Or else everyone will choose sadidas, couse atm (osas will be better has i hear...) they r the only class that have all the other classes bonus they have range (cra), damage (iop), can heal with dolls (enis) and have mp rape (enus) and have a sort of shield (that tree transformation thing, fecas), instead of looking at xelors maybe look at them ????

By: dmartins - (2008-09-04 00:23:59)

well...i think thats stupid....each class has its strong point...xelor take ap...easly..3range is just stupid thats like umm a cra with max range of 5 spells wtf sort that out nothing needed changing cos it was bad enuf after the last nerf

By: twigletman - (2008-09-04 00:32:21)

What is the point of taking a xelor's only weapon?
Let's see, spell damage sucks, that means we have to get a hammer and go to the frontline if we actually want to do some damage, but then, our ability to take away ap is gone, it will be kinda dumb to just stay back, but if we go to the frontline, we get cornered and let's see.. Uh... Oh, we die, stop freaking nerfing xelors that are already quite weak...
Look at the fecas, look at what ur doin to the osamodas, iops, i mean, any class will be so much better than a xelor, what's the point of having a xelor then?

By: Scorpion-owner - (2008-09-04 00:56:39)

HEY ALL!
i would like to say that yes XELORS do over rape..but givin them a minumum range probably wont help them but the new idea for sorting the drain is. as mentioned above the point of a xelor is to rape AP but them having to spend 5-6 AP to take like 2-3 a turn is a little bit silly.

Also...

1. FECAS sheilds are a little bit unfair..but its wat they do but should have a class only spell
2. SADDIDAS could probably have another chance move or class only spell
3. ENRIPSAS at high lvls become pretty much unstoppable as well and need a class only spell
and 4. CRAS need a class spell Badly like a summon that gives +5 to a random stt everyturn or sumfin lol ( it could even be a little target with 4 range and no mp)

any way wateva ankama decides to do i will still stay a SATISFIED customer..unless the nerf cras XD

signed: Sora-The-Brave

By: SORA-THE-CHOSEN-ONE - (2008-09-04 01:16:58)

This update to me is useless, im already a strange build of xelor (int/agi) and takeing ap is what saves me in alot of battles. The abuse xelors are takeing right now is un-called for if the other classes have problems with xelors takeing ap they should raise there wisdom (scrolls,points), and the only thing people see is wisdom xelors they dont think about the other builds xelors have (int,agi,cha,str) the only thing i feel is that ankama is doing is killing the xelor class because other classes cant deal with a classes unique spells. The next update for takeing ap seems to be good enough to me there is no need for the minimum range of 3. What yall are doing is makeing us xelors useless. the best damage ive seen a xelor do with a intel spell is 220 and with a agil spell 130, if you do take our ap rape away the only alternative is for us all to go chance or strength, wich will never happen so most xelors will end up quiting and useing a different class. The only thing that this is doing is just helping players out is pvp.
Before update ---
other person: recruiting xelor for dungeon
Me : ill come
other person: sure (invite)
After updte ---
other person recruiting people for dungeon
Me:ill come
other person: what class are you?
Me:im a xelor
other person: sorry nty
That is the sad but true things that will be sent to xelors trying to do anything. we are already a weak damage class so do not take away the onlything that gives us a fighting chance, im sorry to say that if you do this many people will not renew there membership and ill be one of them.

By: kingDizzy - (2008-09-04 01:27:12)

Really your giving to give me my spell points back? How about my levels back? Xelors are time wizards their only use is to take away ap. Without taking away ap from our adversaries we would become like the weakest class. Minimum range of 3 for ap slowing spells? Is this some kind of sick joke? Did you devs like pvp and the xelor one so he had to be nerfed? Taking out the fact that you already nerfed the blinding protection and counter reflect now you want to make xelors useless. Being limited to teleport once per battle and 2ap for flight (level 6 flight is a joke, 3 casts per turn is rediculous). When I fight I cast my ap removal spells first because if I Critical Fail with my weapon my turn ends. The way it will be now is "attacks with hammer twice and hopes he doesnt critical fails then flights away and runs 2 squares to slow down". I use a gelano so with devotion I have 11 ap (1 for being over 100). Cant ap rape from far, cant ap rape close range, cant even take away ap decently. Yea....this will surely be a good update /sarcasm. Can you give me my 120 levels back and put it on a different character too? Forget giving me my spell points back I want my time and energy investes back as well. Seems as you want every xelor to quit and become an osa. Whats next? Give osa a Osa's Wrath? will it be 1 ap and if you fail the turn doesnt end? Not only do xelors get nerfed, but Osas get super improved. There will not be any xelor who is satisfied with what you are planning to do. I do not this it is fair for all xelors to get punished because of wisdom xelors. Yea their annoying as hell to me also, but im an int xelor. I actually used my points on intelligence and scrolled wisdom. So now all my scrolling will be useless because in the end the only xelors that will be able to take away ap will be the ones that caused all this. The damn wisdom xelors. I do not agree with what you guys are planning to do. If people don't want to lose ap then they can scroll wisdom like I did. If you want to do SOMETHING with you time stop trying to nerf xelors and make Cras better and work on Dofus 2.0. Stop trying to ruin a good thing. Everytime I play a game stupid changes like this ruin it.

By: IwafflesI - (2008-09-04 02:08:50)

I hope you don't forget to reset weapon skills too...cause i'll surely use any BOW or WAND.
Thx

By: vidas - (2008-09-04 02:26:57)

Guys seriously, I barly play as a Xelore. but what you are toing to them is not right.
Xelore's are valued because of taking away AP.
Iops Are valued for Damage.
Feca's are Valued for resistance.

All classes have a special value. doing this makes it so Xelores have no value.
I ask this of you from a custumer and a friend DO NOT make these changes please.

And i dont play Xelor But if you ask me Xelores are fine the way they are right now.

Once again i ask that you DO NOTmake these changes.

Sincerly Leepilong

By: LeepiLong - (2008-09-04 02:34:24)

>>I guess most of the complaints above are from Xelors...no surprise there lol. What other class has the ability to have a one-sided fight, where the opponent doesnt move? To the xelors: Balance your characters guys, and use a mix of other spells, weapons AND AP rape...seems very fair to me, and long overdue.
By: JackpotKid - (2008-09-03 22:57:12)

By: Blimy - (2008-09-04 02:36:39)

Crpes, board cut off my post. So here under other username.
Mate, you have got no clue. I have 2 Enis, 159 and 178, an Enu, 167, a Panda 183 and a Xelor 187. The Xelor I reset at lvl 159 from pure intel to wisdom/intel because a pure damage build is at high levels pretty useless. AP resist of boss monsters is usually well above 100%, which means damage builds struggle to take any decent AP. With the new equations to calculate AP drain, damage builds don't need to level their AP draining spells. It is next to impossible to take even 1 AP off a monster that has about the same resistance as the Xelor. And Wisdom Xelors, which still able to take a little AP, become obsolete because they have to spend 15 AP to remove 5 AP. There is just no relation in this. I for my part will quit with all five subscriptions if this goes through. Wasting a year and a half to raise a team just to see it screwed up is nothing I enjoy.

By: Plimin - (2008-09-04 02:38:42)

Please don't ruin us Xelors, Ap reaping is almost all we can do, thats like taking away the Fecas shields, the Osas summons, and the Sacers Hp.
-Ps. i created the term "Ap Rape" and "Reap"
- Hamma-Time

By: Mlndlessfun - (2008-09-04 02:50:48)

Thats genius! Now, when cornered we xelors will be utterly useless in raping ap.

By: TacticSmith - (2008-09-04 02:59:00)

hi, im a feca lvl 116 from rushu server, i think that these changes is so bad cuz the xelors are a nice class, and i thing that is balance with other class, so dont change them >.

By: -Sesshomaru- - (2008-09-04 03:07:31)

yes,yes i know all you xelors are mad that you might not be able to ap rape ppl untill they have 4 or less ap im gonna miss the days were i watch a xelor just ap rape to the point were all the opponent can do is pass. i love this idea. ik you may not know this but even taking away 2ap is still very usefull (what a shocker!!!!) this is gonna put all xelors to the test i say, cant wait to se all those who fall apart and those who adjust and relize ay wait i can still fight

By: -xdeathx- - (2008-09-04 03:10:51)

osea..... es una forma de hacer ,as aburriudo el juego me parece una mas de las tantas mALAS DECISIONES Q ESTA EMPRESA TOMAA..... pero e nada vale lo q decimos....

By: Rances - (2008-09-04 03:16:34)

ummm because Enutrof,Sadida,Panda,etc can lift spell (Armor Of feca) fecas need to the armors because fecas are fecas :/ we need to the armors :x

Bye

By: poderinfinito - (2008-09-04 03:19:02)

i find that this will help balance them a lot for i have seen multiple classes attempt a fight on a xelor and finding no way to get around the high ap loss and being left with no spells watsoever to use to defend itself so i believe this balances them a lot and thank you for it

By: kidosuper - (2008-09-04 03:39:50)

if they are gonna take xelors special ability, maybe they should take other characters abilities too.

By: Abdullahi - (2008-09-04 03:45:32)

This is pure poppycock...I mean its like taking away a runner's legs! and yes any other class will tell you oh my wis xelor fix the ap raping problem rah rah its unfair, well i agree i hate wisdom xelors. I think reducing the ap loss a little is just fine but to nerf the range?! are you mad? When were xelors the power hitters? hmm? What are we supposed to do? Go close range and die because our low hits wouldnt suffice? Reduce the ap loss thats fine, the other classes deserve a fighting chance...but when you take away our range, well where is our fighting chance? I am a classic Int build Xelor level 81, i dont like pure wis xelor cause they give the class a bad name, but here you are taking away our ONLY power...our last resort, our final breath! Just do it already delete the entire class cause thats obviously what you are trying to do.Thanks Ankama >.>...
-oh and by the way to all other classes who are saying how only we would complain...well yeah we will cause we have to deal with it, im sure if they took away srams invisibility or Iops wrath all the srams and iops would flip out and be the only ones complaining so to you ignorant people, i hope you are proud of how closed-minded you are...congratz on being stuck up!
R.I.P Xelors I pray the best for our future
sincerely,
Spektur [Level 81 classic int build]

By: BlakMage - (2008-09-04 03:46:03)

Yea you make the osa undestructible and you weaken us to death. Tou are taking away all the interest in makin a xelor >.>
Please stop all class modifications ,the new PvP system as well as your 1.20 nerfs already made the game less intense/fun to me

Hey ok one compromise uh...make enus have less pp ,make srams have no invisibility and effective traps,reduce the cra's range, weaken feca shields,make the enis heal less and make iops less dmgy,then ok it ok to make xelors shitty. But then all intensity in the game would be shitty. I miss the old days 2 years ago >.>

But am anxiously waiting for 2.0 ^^ stop wasting time with this and make 2.0 come faster PLIIIZ =D

By: sakatso - (2008-09-04 03:58:19)

oh i didnt see were they said they are taking away the xelors spells slow down,glass,temp. dust, frostbite,etc etc can any point that part out to me?
yeah you cant =D
this is making all you dumb ass xelors stand out the real xelors who know how to um play the game will take this in strides but you other losers will fall apart -.- you still got your ap rape as they have said oh so many times in their lil letter to us? but its just harder so now you cant use the whole "im going to get right next to and ap rape the shit out of you strat. many xelors love to use"

By: -xdeathx- - (2008-09-04 04:01:30)

Hello to all those who can't handle a single nerf. Like many people here have stated,this nerf just means an xelor can't rape anyone/anything to 0 ap while standing right in front of him. "zomfg,wht u meen we cnt reap 2 0? tht stpid,xelors r h@x like that,now we useless,fuk u dofus" just makes you all sound like immature little 6 year olds who just got their Pokemon game taken away for an hour. seriously, instead of standing right beside the bworker,or tot or w/e you're raping,let someone else like a Feca or Eni or Sac stand in front of it,and take the one hit that the monster will be able to do. Hell, half the time I'm in any dungeon, the Xelor does a damn good job of ap raping the monster, and they aren't within 5 squares of the monster. I love this update, this will set apart any decent Xelor and the Xelors who are only capable of knowing how to sit back,and clicking slow down, time theft,and devo. Congrats people, you've finally reached what we call a 'test'. Feca's got a test when we had our big nerf. shields last 4 turns, cooldown of 6? Maybe reduced ap, but Xelors can still ap rape any turn, unless you're silly enough to be captured in a corner,let alone twice, if you have used teleport. 2 turns without shields? Kay Xelors, grow a set. You still have decent damage spells. Sadis can only cast Bramble twice a turn, Fecas seriously reduce 50-100 damage, Iops have to be close combat to do almost anything, Eni's don't have alot of spells to heal themselves with (1-4, depending on unbewitch,cooldown of WoR,Curative at once per turn, and Revits AoE), Srams have invis/traps,then its pretty much just CC and lethal. Most Srams are 9 ap, guess what Xelors, steal two,thats a lethal or 2 dags. Or, if it's a lvl 190+ sram,a lethal and a CC. Stop trying to drag down the entire game because you have to actually THINK about what the hell you're doing. Sorry, the days of sitting in the middle of a mob and raping 4 monsters to 0 because thats all your brains capable of thinking of are over, Get lvl 150, and class ring if staying at a range is THAT hard to do. Between Flight and Tele, seriously, if you get cornered, you deserve to die. Yes, that's right. I said DESERVE. Just like Feca's deserve to be unbewitched if you can't keep a Sadida or Enu or Panda at range between Tele and Para. Get over yourselves, and ADAPT. This entire game wasn't "make a wis xelor and get a free ride to lvl 200." It's a strategy game. If you can''t think of one, then maybe you're playing the wrong game.

By: asuttsa - (2008-09-04 05:40:16)

I do not PvP. I am not an ap killing class. Changing these spells purely based on PvP (you know it is, PvM Xelors are of no consequence) is unjust and I feel is punishing what is already a class that is almost of no use in higher level dungeons.

Even in PvP, our ap kill abilities are only there to stop other classes overpowered spells. Most fights where there is only 1 wis Xelor, they are relegated to only taking ap. The problem in PvP is having more than one Xelor, your change doesn't fix that problem.

If you're going to enact this change, than let every Xelor completely reset all stats and spell points. I feel many Xelors may want to rethink their wis builds. Making both reflect spells a state on a crit will also help non wis Xelors in PvP after this change as well.

By: Drywall - (2008-09-04 05:41:40)

There is no FREAKING idea to take away Xelors only way to survive... Xelors maybe overpowered but its when they are over 130 lvl! So Why do you even have to chance all classes... well some uptade are useful (like Osas revive spell) but mostly these new uotades to chance classes sucks!

Im now 42 lvl agi-xelor and i just take 2 ap (with 6 p)

By: traitotor - (2008-09-04 07:02:49)

Nerfing xelors has its ups and downs but making minimum range is wrong...

I am a level 66 AP rape osa (prespic,)
Does that mean i get nerfed?

And what about AP rape monsters? Do they get nerfed?

By: sabeman - (2008-09-04 08:51:47)

Humm, "This entire game wasn't "make a wis xelor and get a free ride to lvl 200." It's a strategy game. If you can''t think of one, then maybe you're playing the wrong game." wrote by asuttsa. As u said this is a strategy game, them why don´t u make a strategy to kill xelor´s????? I mean how hard it is to kill a xelor, we don´t use our spells couse they suck, our only way to atk is by using hammers and most of them require 4 to 5 ap meaning 2 atks per turn and if it crit fails we r done for and it´s close combat, for u ignorant players it means we need to be close and we take 2-3 ap if we r lucky, if u have at least 75% ap loss resist u only loose 2 ap max (i been fighting trees for a long time and the max ap i could rape from them is 2 with 300 wis and they have 75% ap loss resist). So a good strategy for u dumb players is maybe considering scrolling ur wis and not just have a pure damage set like most of u have maybe put some wis into ur lives??? And more we rn´t damagers like iops or sadis, how can we fight a player that deals 300-400 damage per atk??? or fight someone that has shields all the time, or someone that heals instantly after each atk, we simply can´t unless we cut down their ap at least by half (that never happens, lol), so instead of nerfing xelors why don´t the other player like asuttsa get smarter and get a strategy ;)

By: dmartins - (2008-09-04 09:04:46)

All classes do have there specific jobs. iops/sadi - damage, feca- defense , xelor ap rape...
but raping ap to 0-2 makes xelors into little unstoppable gods. (pvp) How is any one supposed to fight with absolutley no ap?? Should all non xelors just sit back and watch the little ap rape show till were dead every pvp fight? I realize its been real fun winning every pvp fight against anyone with less than 9 ap but its just not fair . Just like giving iops guaranteed wrath every turn. Its just ridiculous. A fair compromise would be to give xelors more damage capabilities . But this ap rape to the point of not being able to do anything but pass is just insane. best of luck to all you xelors.

By: rsuave - (2008-09-04 09:50:05)

As a loyal player to the dofus world for 2 years now, I've seen a lot, but this is a hard hit to the world of gameplay. A new formula is needed, and as an iop with no real defense against a xelor's mass ap drains, I do see a need in SOME areas. The new formula is nice, and gives us a chance to develop new strategies (a wisdom hybrid in sets or build), however the range change will cause a massive change to all players. Some classes, Xelor's included, receive a heavy blow when you mess with the range of their skills. Perhaps a cap on classes that truely benefit from that ap loss will help balance them out. High amounts of wisdom can be a problem as players with that ability often tend to sky rocket their levels and sometimes discourage new players. I have wrestled with xelor's and played them as well. They are a unique class, totally dedicated to the removal of ap, and they need to focus on that goal. However there is still that need. Lower ap defenses and cap wisdom. Nothing else needs to be done.

By: KonigWerewolf - (2008-09-04 09:53:59)

By: rsuave - (2008-09-04 09:54:33)

well what can i add that hasn't already been said...
i play an wis/int xel hybrid with around 350 points of each of those 2 stats (i am only lvl85 btw)...
minimum range of 3 for ap taking spells is really ridiculous and funny even :)
new formula for spells is fine by me, cuz i agree that xelors shouldn't be able to take that much ap anyway :)
i mean with 8ap gear + 2ap from devo, i am able to take up to to 5 ap from someone, on lvl 100+ that will increase to 6, which is too much...
but with enforcing minimum range of 3 for those spells it will become impossible (not hard, but really impossible for xelors to train solo against any mobs)...
only solution i see for this is make cooldown on mummyfication spell 5 turns (if fecas can cast shields right after they wear off, then xelors should be able to do the same thing with mummy)...
i know some of u will say "why train solo, go and find a group", well an answer to this is: with new changes implemented no one will be willing to take a xelor with them unless he is 180+ chance xelor, so basically 90% of players playing a xelor that are

By: ITwiz - (2008-09-04 10:39:09)

With my Xelor, I only want Xelor's Sandglass for the 2 AP cost. I don't mind one cast per turn, I wouldn't even mind if it could only ever take 1 AP per cast. Even if it didn't take any AP at all. It's a non-line of sight fire based spell, which you don't have to spend more money than you have on. Good to use when a monster has taken YOUR AP down to 2. Fire based, I can use it as well as my hammer with base AP, what more could I ask? Oh, yeah, to be able to cast it on the monster next to me, of course! Ankama, please don't make Xelors unable to take AP in close range, just reduce significantly the number of AP they can take! With this other formula, it'll make Xelors much easier to fight, without making them completely useless to fight as. Thank you.

By: DuckyMcZoo - (2008-09-04 10:48:20)

..."90% of players playing a xelors that are"...
not 180+ chance build will simply quit their characters...
thus making dofus a world of 11&1/2, instead of a world of 12 :DDD

just my 2 cents.

By: ITwiz - (2008-09-04 11:13:23)

Why don't you guys just take a poll , asking something like : Do you like the new ideea of the Xelor's AP rapeing spells being nerfed ?

By: Ciprian-Ro-Ct - (2008-09-04 11:20:00)

"The Xelor or Xelor's Sandglass class are manipulators of time and space. They are experts at taking AP, and can stop enemies from attacking." ---> " Xelors are the most effective class at removing AP and we want to change this aspect of the game. " Stop me if I am wrong , but isn't this kinda F***ed up ?

By: loremaster - (2008-09-04 11:26:59)

lol will clock be minimum range of 3 too? :DDD

then even chance build xelors will stop playing :DDD

By: ITwiz - (2008-09-04 11:59:47)

I'm a lvl 60 sadida one thing I always take into account when fighting a xelor, is how close I let him get. Now sure he can take my AP quite heavily, but I can still run away until he crit-fails, and most usually, that equals his death as they never have had all that much HP to begin with for effective builds.

One thing I dont think people consider when complaining about this nerf though, is that most maps, pvp or otherwise are 5-8 squares from the other opponent. All a xelor has to do is have enough initiative to attack before they're opponent, doing such gives them the opportunity to cast their best/cheapest ap reducing spells first to render their victim nearly helpless. Take away 4 or more ap from me, and I'm screwed. Now given a map where im in that 5-8 range, bow xelors will knock me out fast, and others may use that closer distance to develop their strategy for killing the particular char. I prefer to never get hit by a xelor, it's suicide for me, XD so considering that risk, I doubt I will get close enough for them worry about the minimum range.

On the other hand, at lvl 54, I was killing lvl 50-80 (and yes even an 85) Xelor. My Idea is that all characters and players can develop a strategy to defeating any other player (within guidelines), (even you nerfed xelors) but at the same time accept we are not the "God of Dofus" and will always have our criptonite class or build to deal with. Cra's used to a sadida's worst enemy, a pandawa a sacrier's bane (given particular builds). I dont find them all that much of a challenge anymore, This particular nerf tho, I do conclusively agree is too much. If a character is willing to spend a certain degree of time and effort into raising his Wis that high to be effective, there should definitely be rewards. Even if they change their minds and save you poor xelors from extinction I['ll be waiting to make it happen ^^

-mr-roboto- ingame for a challenge :P

By: Blades-of-the-weary - (2008-09-04 12:50:28)

Xelors are ap rape class almost all their spells are commited to ap rape with this mass nerfs the class is ruined and without ap rape noone will ever want then in dungs and runs.It is a shame for ankama to doo this

By: homolog - (2008-09-04 12:51:40)

"...only solution i see for this is make cooldown on mummyfication spell 5 turns (if fecas can cast shields right after they wear off, then xelors should be able to do the same thing with mummy)....
By: ITwiz - (2008-09-04 10:39:09)

To what you said, the point is that there is distinction between classes. Gee if there wasn't, I should rant about not being able to attack or move while im a tree when i cast sylvan!

I know you think thats preposterous for me to even suggest, but Sadi's got nerfed a while back and ruined the earthquake/poisoned wind/sylvan build to attack the whole map, but not completely. And true I dont see many of those players, but there are still successful builds out there, and with any change like this, people will be more heavily exploring possibilities and people will say eventually,

"What you noob you ruined ur char? dont put it into wisdom thats crappy.. do this...."

Personally I do agree that they should not limit the xelor's spells in to a min of 3 range, and I also think they should be given the option to reset their stat points at least as a courtesy. They did to pandas before didn't they? Obviously many will and many will not (scrolled)

By: Blades-of-the-weary - (2008-09-04 13:24:46)

I agree with all the complaints here tottally :/ Im lvl 160 xelor and have no idea if Ill keep playing after these changes, because it will ruin my build, what about not only giving spell points back, but stat points too? Cause this change is gonna ruin alot of xelor builds. I really have no idea why after a very long time u devs now feel the urge to seriously change the gameplay of xelors, I think everything else has been said by others, the min. range 3 is ridiculous and Id stay with just changing the ap rape formula, if u really need to hurt xelors somehow.. :/

By: HollyCURSE - (2008-09-04 15:22:12)

That's insane!
If you do that you have to increase damage.

If he keeps running i can only use slowdown, thats the only spell that can reach him while he keeps killing me. (But if you change it, i wont reach him.)
Ok i can teleport, I'll teleport then, -5 or -4 ap for me and then he keeps running and killing me and i cant teleport again!
Should i use fligh? Ok lets use flight and lose more ap to do a stupid damage with hand or if i am chance i wont do it because i need to be linear and near him. That's stupid. Think about it!
At least increase range of hand or make it use only 3ap at lvl 6.

If i can't take ap from him do to his shields and stuff he'll keep doing teleporting and glyphs. So if i am int xelor i wont do any damage because of shields, and if i am chance/wisd i wont do any damage too, 1º because i dont have range for clock,2º because i cant take ap from him.

Sadida with branble do 3 hits, ok i could slow down him to increase number of hits, oh almost forgot I have low probability of taking ap now. Ok lets do a spell that does damage. I can do 2 hands for 3 branbles.
Ok I am dead.

I could do all classes vs xelors here but i think thats enought for you to see how stupid and weak will be xelors and I am sad because I played a lot on this char and I dont want to start a new one. For not talk about your noob servers that are all the time in maintenance while we keep paying p2p to lose hours!

By: BlkS - (2008-09-04 15:24:18)

I seriously 'etaH' losing AP, an its because of Xelors I have a high amount of AP. You should change the Agrression, or increase the Dis-honour penalty by lvl.. as I am tired of being aggro'd by Xelors..
an cause i have No AP to do anything, I just quit an leave the fights now.. rather than fight someone.........................

By: Aussie-Kangaroo - (2008-09-04 16:14:07)

Its right, cuz i think a wisdom xelors are overpowerd, they can steal Ap even if someone have 300% Ap/Mp resist. Ankama make good step in evolve with Dofus. I like it.

By: DarkMessiahCze - (2008-09-04 16:22:49)

I also appreciate the change on xelors. Right now, xelors are obviously very overpowered, wisdom xelors are beyond game balncing and it's not funny to see wisdom xelors get a free win agains everything like this.

However, i want to address another issue about wisdom based xelors, but not only that, but also all wisdom based classes, and that's the xp gain. I don't think it's fair that these builds get a lot more xp than everyone else. Focusing the build more on AP and MP loss is interesting, but i don't think they should get twice as much xp as everyone else for doing this. Especially for wis xelors this is a big issue, since they are not only almost invincible in PvP and incredibly powerful in boss battles, too, but they also get way too much xp for it, and i don't think different character builds and getting experience should be linked like this.

I really hope that this problem will be faced by our dear developers, since it greatly puts back the old, traditional, stat-based classes and gives an unfair advantage to the new wis-classes, which mostly play very poor with the exception of xelors.

By: Blazeron - (2008-09-04 17:31:34)

As a 194 Xelor, I even agree PvP should be changed for Xelors. That being said, I do NOT PvP at all. I only PvM and Xelors just aren't one of the mandatory classes in dungeons as it is and now with this nerf we're that much less useful in dungeons. I don't see why my PvM experience needs to be effected by your PvP imbalance.

Wis Xelors are overpowered, but only in PvP. Change our ap kill spells to only effect PvM then or give them a secondary effect like the Pandawasta "no melee" spell which ONLY effects PvP. That way Xelors aren't totally ueless in PvP and we're un-effected in PvM.

By: Drywall - (2008-09-04 18:02:29)

I play an Osamodas which is my faveorite class. And yes I have fought against Xelors in Pvp all my ap is taken away every turn and I just stand there and get killed... though it does make sense to limit the Ap they remove from enemies, it will seriously hurt their fighting abilities in group fights specifically. Taking away 2 ap from every person in the opposing team does sound impressive to me, however many people can cope with that loss and still fight efficiently.

By: ChaplainAdrian - (2008-09-04 18:40:26)

well all thre problem is that xelor are wisdom if u cant waste money as a xelro in wisdom scrolls and invest ur char points in wisdom to be able to evade the ap rape well thats not the prolbem of the xelors, is urs i dont like this changes ankama is doing have been 3 changes with this now well i dont think is fair that all the money and time one person waste making his char (xelor) well had been for nothing cause have to think again what to do with every change u do just cause some ppl is not wis or cant buy a good set with good wis and dont invest the same as we do making our xelors cause for all is hard but we try our best and nerfing chars well maybe is not the correct way

By: blaste - (2008-09-04 19:19:30)

Quote:
Xelors are the most effective class at removing AP and we want to change this aspect of the game.
WTF!? WHO EXACTLY do you WANT to be the best class at this?! i think somebody needs a slap...
k, im no noob, got a few accounts 100+ and no joke, this is the worst idea ive ever heard of.No joke, and i come from a school where somebody wanted to fix the hole in the ceiling with edible paper.
I reckon equips with ap/mp resists on was the best idea to fix the xelor pvp pwnage problem, this is just wrong... so very very wrong.

When was the last time you heard somebody say "need an xelor for XXXXX dungeon!!" it just doesnt happen.

Doing this is just gonna make xelors a dead class, nobodys gonna want to put the effort in to get one to lvl 150+ just to be a decent character.

PLEASE FOR THE TWELVE GODS SAKE DONT GO THROUGH WITH THIS BALLS OF AN IDEA

By: Chocobo-Riders - (2008-09-04 19:31:33)

I don't have an Xelor myself, but I've fought them before. I can understand maybe lessening the AP raping...but the range of the spells shouldn't be lessened, that's just going too far with it. Seriously Ankama, get your act together.

By: OmniSlam - (2008-09-04 21:29:08)

Man buddis come on i have a lvl 188 xelor and now u want that i leave him or what Dx ? than u can make iops wrath too 1-2 strengh or enis just heal + 10 thats is really a bad update just make dofus 2.0 and than no more updates than dofus are perfect , if u make this update than u can elet xelor class because no1 will play it more and all play than world of warcraft or else!

By: XxVallexXdaking - (2008-09-04 21:52:36)

I dun't gotta xelor and i HAVE fought with them and made them lvl3 to lvl4...i like xelors...but you needa switch a spell...slow down with...a new spell...can i name it!oh and by the way im going to make a Xelor now FAREWELLL!!!!

By: idixa - (2008-09-04 22:33:30)

I think this changement is going to suck...if u do it ur going to f**k up another of my chars, i had to erase my eca with bluff changement with this changement im just going to stop dofus i dont want to start again,its been so hard to lvl this xelor... i cant even handle a warko without ap raping so this suck for me.

By: CJackson - (2008-09-04 23:45:49)

By: cooooooraasas - (2008-09-05 02:08:31)

WTF is your guys probably you wanna fuck up the xelor class even more there not even that good at pvp till lvl 150+ i have a lvl 110 and im not that great and you guys are gonna fucken nerf us again first its counter now its the ap spell wtf do u guys want for xelor to be the suckyest class in the game?? cause there going to be if u want to nerf someone nerf a fucken eca, a fucken lvl 100 eca can hit 200-300 twice close combat im fucken pissed fuck you guys

By: coolcorey - (2008-09-05 02:12:17)

"Xelors are the most effective class at removing AP and we want to change this aspect of the game.
...
The majority of classes have almost no viable alternative when faced with the massive AP loss caused by a Xelor in PvP."
I'm an Osa and I think this isn't right. If the class is based on screwing someone's AP, it SHOULD be easy for them to do so. Also, when soloing against a Cra I'm sure to get beat down. Everytime. Should Cras be nerfed? A lot of people hate Osas because of the 'Tofu spam' tactic, but it seems like they just got a buff...
I think we should go with the sheild idea. Or at least make weapons and armor that make it easier to dodge AP/MP loss. By a LOT. Make'em cheapish and for levels 50+. Something funky like that.
Leave the Xelors as they are; we'll just have to know to watch out for their AP skills and/or not go one-on-one with them if we're too afraid of the AP loss. Like how I know not to go one-on-one with a Cra and how all classes know to watch out for an Osa's summons or PoC.
...Well, I can understand if you're agressed and FORCED to fight them one-on-one, but how often are agressed fights fair, anyway?

By: PhantasmaIdola - (2008-09-05 03:03:59)

Damnit. If you guys want to proceed with this, please compensate all Xelors with other capabilities. We are the time Master. Think..... What u give in Wakfu should be in here too.

By: LordZaque - (2008-09-05 03:09:10)

For every reason stated before this comment, and most likely every reason to come after it, this "update" is an awful idea.
With the ability to reset and scroll your characteristics, it is no longer an issue for any class player of any level to get as much wisdom, and therefore ap/mp resists, as a xelor of the same level. You merely scroll your stat of choice, get gear that boosts that stat, and funnel all of your points into wisdom.
As the ap-steal class, it strikes me as illogical to deliberately try and take that quality away from xelors. Four to five ap to take, most likely, two ap is an awful trade off, and will instantly nerf the effectiveness of xelors, and take away their main attribute: ap stealing.
It seems as though this change is being brought about solely to effect PvPing full-wisdom xelors: they don't exist anymore. With the Counter nerf, that build disappeared, and people were forced to choose another primary characteristic to level in order to do damage. Since the Wis/Counter build no longer exists, this seems somewhat futile, and more damaging than helpful. Truly, this is a massive step in completely obliterating xelors from the playing field of Dofus.
Personally, I am extremely opposed to implementing these new changes, and I urge the Dofus team to seriously reconsider or at least massively change these 'updates', which will only end in the annihilation of any interest in the Xelor class.

Cheers, Kralove is pretty cool.

By: therewasthisguy - (2008-09-05 07:00:16)

Well, im not much into the game, but heres my 2 cents:

When i started the game, i choose the Xelor, out of the description of the class.. I was pretty surprised when i found out they have no way to take away MP, which definately fits into the field of time, or not? Anyways im a level 46 f2p Xelor now, and i suck in comparison to other lvl 46 chars... I still get kicked out of battles, even though i finally got Devotion, im an Int build, btw..
I go for damage, but as all my spells do very unreliable damage (Temp Dust, sometimes does 50ish damage, but most of the time, its in the 20s...) i have to AP rape in order to just survive... I dont like to AP rape, it just stretches the battles, making it pretty ineffective to level up and i just AP rape, when the opponent is next to me (about the minimum range...) as most monsters can still attack with half of theyr ap... i dont see how i can take enemies effectively in a range of levels that allows me to level up..
I also found out a Feca around my level can rape more AP than me, same with an Osa, who leveled his Prespics...
Devotion sucks, as it has low range, just gives 2 AP, and cant be recast before it wears off, Sandglass sucks, as it just can be cast once a turn... Teleport sucks, as it can just be cast once a battle...
What does a Xelor have now?
Everything a Xelor should be supposed to do, can be done better by another class (Ap giving, Enrirs, AP rapeing, Fecas, MP giving; Rapeing, Enis (should be possible, imo) - but all of these classes can also do something else effectively in order to win battles... - Xelors dont do decent damage and dont have much HP)
So, if this downgrade is gonna happen, there has to be a serious upgrade on the other hand.. (Devotion, Damage, other stuff)
Another possibility would be to make wisdom a not raisable stat, or to make this happen, but make wisdom affecting AP giving/rapeing, in a way the other stats effect damages (100 wisdom = you can theoretically steal 2 AP with lvl 1 Slow down, get 4 AP from Devotion) Or maybe raise the 10% chance to get AP from a move, so a Xelor could get a bunch of luck and do a lot of moves in a turn, but i personally think the Xelors are too much of a luck class already, even though that should belong to the Ecas..
Also when having a look at the counter/binding protection thingy... Why are Fecas allowed to have more than 1 Shield at a time and more than 1 Glyph on the Field? Why is there no Cap on Vitality for Sacriers? Why are Cras allowed to cast 2 Explosive Arrows a turn, if they have the AP?
On the other Hand: I doubt a Wis Xelor is easy to become effective... What level would he need? Level 60? or 100+ to be able to level up, without being leeched? I think someone who puts that a big lot of work into raising his char, should get something for it... (also keeping in Mind that AP rape battles take Ages)
I also see people talking about Time Theft... Is there any use in this spell?
Anyways, i planned to become p2p at some point do a reset and scroll Wis and Int to 101, but with this i doubt thats gonna happen...

Sorry, if i wrote a load of crap, im not into this game that much, and if this is going to happen, i probably never gonna be.. Feel free to correct me, though...

PS: other ways to avoid this: A Spell that can be bought, which gives AP loss resistance, A Spell that costs just 1 AP?

By: JGB - (2008-09-05 10:07:05)

As a fellow fighter of the world of twelve, i feel this is not say a bad move but not say a good one to follow up on xelors because it is their job to successfully disable the enemy, but me being a multi-class fighter, i also feel it is your choice to do whatever you see fit with your class characters, but as a ex-GM for a game ( Ferentus) i will agree with whatever you guys do, and continue playing whether it comes to where there is only 3 classes left or there is a whole new 12, but i will say this, Ankama team, you guys work hard and long to level out the playing field for others and making this game mroe tactfull for others, just choose what you guys do wisely, because the best update to you guys can be the worst downgrade for the players and vise versa thus causing players to quit, i personally dont care, ill play one way or another.. them are my thoughts, have fun ty ankama for making the first decent mmorpg (2-D) game i've played / tested in 7 years

By: Vahn-Gala - (2008-09-05 11:56:37)

what can i do to give up AP\MP?

By: rahtu - (2008-09-05 14:59:30)

You know what funny? Im a lvl 175 str xelor,atleast i try to be one,because its exremely hard to be a str xelor.Bad str cap,1 high ap costing spell....i dont even have to mention close combat nerf.Now they even nerf the spells.This basicly means,like many people said: RIP xelor.I dont have the intention to build a new character,im moving on,this game has to much changes,useless changes that makes people who put alot of time and effort mad.Now i understand why alot of high lvl people leave this game,not because they are high,because they are bored,not of the game but of the useless changes noob amkana makes.

By: IgotChance - (2008-09-05 16:00:31)

Okay, I do not play a Xelor and that for various and sundry reasons, not least of which is that they are hard to level at the beginning unless you have a lot of friends to help you out with equipment or dragging you along to fights. I play a Sadida, an MP raper basically.

First off, I've been playing ever since Rosal came online and I have witnessed an awful lot of changes over the years and frankly am getting tired of char class changes. You try to "balance" the chars but really, it just imbalances things further in my opinion. People got annoyed at Eca's cause they could bluff their way out of anything even at low levels. Then they got annoyed at Feca's cause their glyphs could immobilize and kill an enemy quick. You answered these grumblings and made changes, not always for the better. Personally I really wish the char classes would be left alone. You've made it so that anyone can now play an optimized character, a "perfect" char and while I think it admirable that you take player opinion so serious, I dont think that was a good idea. It takes away from the diversity, it makes everything too predictable. The chars are fine the way they are, it would be far more advantageous to listen to the players grumblings about boredom.

What makes a game like WoW or Guild Wars so dynamic is that the WORLD grows and changes, not the classes. Yes you add dungeons, yes more powerful equipment is available but regardless of that, nothing changes. Its the same-old, same-old. You should be focusing on the evolution of the world, as you had once in the past already (porko territory for instance, where the island burned down and is slowly regrowing. THAT was cool, as you could see the changes - one day you go there, the island is green and lush, the next day there's only burned out husks). You need a basic storyline that causes the world to change (again - WORLD not classes) with plots for the characters to stumble across and do something about (one way to implement this could be through quests, with enough folks having done a certain quest, something reactionary occurs).

That's just my 2 cents worth. I just really really wish the char classes would be left alone or changed back to what they used to be, because I'm tired of every class reduced down to individual ineffectiveness because every other class can do almost every special ability from the others.

By: Anubiel - (2008-09-05 18:04:00)

Talking to another dear fellow player, we both realized that the absolute major thing that truly bothers us about the class changes is that its so abrupt, from one day to the next.

One moment you can use a certain ability in a certain way (ex. the shields a Feca can cast - before: permanent, after: need be recast every 6 rounds), the next day you get to reallocate the points FOR THAT ONE SPELL ONLY. Meaning if a spell that uses int is made ineffective, that char is from more then just a roleplaying point of view, rendered unplayable because he may have optimized that chars int to be more effective.

SUUUUURE he can go through the dungeon to reset, but seriously ... only high levels can even attempt such (I'm level 100, I can't go through that dun even with fellow players...) , and I mean HIGH level, just getting the resources to get a key is ridiculous.

These implemented changes might be more easily digestable if they occur slowly over time, as if the character is evolving as time goes by. I have no idea if this is programmable but storylines could at least be developed for it, for WHY a character can no longer be as effective as he once was. That would at least give the role players amongst us a hook to play with.

By: Tasselhof - (2008-09-05 18:23:29)

i hope we stil can get 20-80% ap problimaty ap loses for blinding porotectkion and 100% ap loses problimaty from mumificition too i need it! and my sandglas need -2 ap some time too biacose i cant dodge -1 and then -1 ap! it is not cool!
if yu doo - for xelors then doo some+ too! it can be cool to get xelors punch to intele or clock it can be coler! beacose sadidas have all spels for str i think! and vhay we have - for xelors if sumoners get +some sumon efects if sumones is yust sumoning i hate it! i want be goog xelor stil and i dont vant then 60 level sumoner can bet me! or some els clas if i am level 71 it stinks!
And i hope yu chane thet spel vhen sadidas -4 mp! then i cant muve!
giv some +for xelor! i vant be beter too not lower!
sory for english!
ty

By: VINER - (2008-09-05 20:42:02)

i like the agi xelor because i have one lvl 80 melf-acidshiveling (ros) , i can reach good damage because melf are scrolled character, and i have a very good equipment.All the damages spells of the xelor are very low and the betters are of diferents elements :S, example: punch of the xelor(str) clock(cha) shiveling(agi) temporal dust(int) , the only good thing of the xelors are the"rape" or ap drainer, dicrease that power are sucks, i haved a iop fearnot lvl 70 and i loike more melf because he rape the enemys and they cant atk but fearnot cause more damage, im very mad for the new version 1.25 you transform the xelor in a bad class
XC

i dont will up slow down it sucks in 1.25 and frossbite too
i loss 2 spells because this version :S

Srry for the english im from costarica :S

Viva tikiacia!!!! lokos

By: fearnot - (2008-09-06 06:29:53)

So after updeit All Scrolls gone ? !!!!

By: I-See-Throth-Walls - (2008-09-06 13:49:38)

Xelors aren't really overpowered in PvM. In PvM, Xelors can really only cause massive Ap loss against one or two monsters; when faced with a group, Xelors have to actually fight. Nerfing them in PvP is fine, but as a lvl 37 Xelor (ShadowClock), nerfing my character will make this game a lot less fun, and I might not renew my subscription....

By: Zaplight - (2008-09-06 16:39:50)

I myself am an intell xelors lvl 95 and it was hard to get there.
I also choose my char because of the description dofus had written.
The Xelors don’t have any good dmging spells so they need there ap raping spells to survive.
Unlike other classes for example: Sadida’s have high dmging spells like bramble and aggressive bramble ect, they also have a doll that heals and give mp.
Next to that they can also unbewitch people which make feca’s noobs when they fight sadies.
Why don’t you think about nerfing them they are like a merge of every class except Xelors.
Now the most xelors have 2 attacks that do dmg hands which is good at low levels but very weak in mid lvl’s and sandglass which is average in both, we also get Ap raping spells which sandglass is one of them and then we have slow down (which has been nerfd already I might add )to steal a max of 3 ap now ankama is only looking at pvp and not at pvm.
Im fine with the new ap/mp takeing rule but nefing their range is just CRAP.
If they do this xelors will not be even able to kill monsters if they get cornered beacue hello Ankama not every xelors has a good weapon.
These nerfs have not been thought true because low lvl xelors will never get to lvl this way a stupid Gobbal would be able to kill them.
Xelors are good the way they are you can just apply the new ap/mp formula but forget about the range nerfing

Xelors where a big help in dungeons but after this nerf they wont be needed for anything.
Ankama if you nerf xelors now with the range restriction you can say your goodbye’s to the Xelor class because they will no longer be worthy of there name…

…Xelors R.I.P

P.S JGB is totally right read his note .. and Ankama there should be some upgrade on the weapons in dofus make some intell weapons its not the meaning that intell chars have to work harder then str chars just to get good equip/weapons!!

By: Regkupo - (2008-09-06 16:49:58)

This is one of the reasons I no longer play Dofus. When I first started it was all cool but then Ankama started with there nerfing and updates.After subscribing for a year I left this game in 4 months when they came up with stinky xelor nerfing, updating and stupid glowy wings crap. Another thing was they didn't do a damn thing about lag or bots. The lag on my server is so bad you die standing there and don't know it for 5 minutes. Massive bot spam everywhere and no action from Ankama to do anything to fix it. They really don't care about nerfing other classes, there balancing is just bullshit. The game is really not fun at all anymore. And there customer support is the worst ever they don't reply ticket for weeks. This game was a complete waste of two 1 year subs. I haven't logged in for a month, I just can't deal with the BS in dofus anymore. Yay for World of Warcraft!

By: nXDarkXn - (2008-09-06 19:49:33)

I haven't had the patience to reat through al these coments, so even though i run the risk of repating somethign or raising questions that have already been asnewred i feel that i should post.

Firstly, xelor is not a to much damage dealing class, even with a solid inetligence or agility build (a same level iop with the same stats will always do more damage), and so the xelor has to drain the ap of his enemy to be able to have any chance of survival in a battle against a same level player. In the in-game book "how to become a perfect mercenary in astrub" you actually state that xelor is a good ap taker with low-medium damage ana good range (which is exaclty how it is). Now becuase of this update Xelor will become as make an ap thief as the other classes, low-medium damage, medium range. So in other words you simply make the xelor useless in both pvp and pvm.

Secondly, besides making the xelor worthless, you also make it nearly impossible to play at low levels and almost impossible to level for the players that already have a level 30-80 xleors. So besides the pople who already hav a levle 120+ Xelor who will fare quite well even nerfed, xelor will become an idiot race because it has no usefull skils in team play, damage is unimpressive, and range is not really that greta anyway so you'll end up having transformed a good and satisfying race into a useless and hard to play race.

Your telling me that xelors are to powerfull? Well after severeal tries, diffrent atempted strategies and diffrent locations my xelor still couldnt win against a lower level saddida, and trust me i tired a lot! And if i wasnt able to use my ap rape skill i wouldve been lucky to last more than 2 turns, and both of us had the same equipment on, so the diffrences between stats were only minor and because of the level gap.

Also for people who have they're main a xelor (like me), it will not nearly be as fun playing as a xelor any further, it will actually be very dissapointing. So if xelor's notun anymore then heck play start playin a diffrent race which you like and you think will be fun, no biggie. Yeah, so even though the effort you put in your main will be wasted, it doesn't matter, it was all put in for the sake of fun anyway. Besides you'll be expieriencing somehting new.... So it's not that bad if you make one class really annoying for some people, they can just switch to a diffrent one. Yeah but what happens when that class gets neferd too? I for one am not willing to pay just to run that risk of my favurite class getting nerfed real bad and having to start again with another one. Theres really no fun in that.

Furthermore, there are some really upset people here (i'm among them) because of this and quite a bunch are quting dofus because you made them play for so long and now you make they're time wasted. Are you really sure you want to do this without AT LEAST a second thought?

So in conclusion i say xelor is perfect where it is now. I do agrre to the formula change it sounds much fairer with the new formula, and i consider it to be a verry good ideea and i suporrt it 100%. But leave the spells alone! And if you really want to make the xelors ap rape even more inefficient than put ap loss dodgig properties in items, not just shields, in any piece of equipment, including weapons. There are other solutions as well, you guys have proven your creativity time and time again, so find something that doesn't completely make the xelor useless.

By: LordADN - (2008-09-06 20:57:03)

Since I still not buying into the PvM thing, let me just make a suggestion to PvP. What stands in the way of actually giving ALL players 100% AP/MP resist BASE. On top of that you can then through wisdom bring that resist up to 200%. Now such a change I could see work out in PvP without actually changing anything on any class in particular. Trust me, as a Wisdom Xelor, it isn't a piece of cake taking 10 AP down to 0 AP with only 10-12 AP at ones hand. There are only two Xelor AP spells that are cheap to cast and they can take a maximum of 5 AP, Slowdown and Sandglass. Getting something/somebody with 150%+ resistance to 0 AP usually takes more than 10-12 AP of the Xelor ... often a lot more because opponents with such high resistance tend to dodge frequently.

Getting 400 Wisdom from scrolls and gear is absolutely no problem at higher levels and only at that levels resistances of 200% are 'required' because lower level Xelors don't have enough wisdom themselves to be much of a pain if you only have 150% resistance.

In my opinion, such an approach would solve the whole issue that we are talking about here. No shields needed or anything. In regards to shields, 2-handed weapons are great but getting your elemental resists to 60% and more using shields could well be a better approach, unless you rely on an Eni. So I'd not say adding AP/MP resistance to a shield would change things. Anyway, my proposal looks to me like something that could work for all because it would not piss us PvM enthusiasts off and it would give other players a good chance in PvP.

By: Blimy - (2008-09-06 21:28:33)

I personally, even as a Xelor, think that overall these changes are good and in the best interest of making PvP more fair. Even for PvM, there are ways around the range gap, like Flight, or having a friend along to lock the monsters you want to drain while you drain AP from range. It adds more strategy and challenge to an otherwise very simple tactic. However, in addition to basing the AP/MP drain on resists, I think re-installing the sliding resist scale we saw in 1.24 beta would mitigate additional gripes.

Credit to Intuo for the numbers:
0 Wisdom = 0% resist
25 Wisdom = 18% resist
50 Wisdom = 37% resist
75 Wisdom = 56% resist
100 Wisdom = 75% resist [equivalent to 300 Wisdom in old system]
125 Wisdom = 87% resist
150 Wisdom = 100% resist [equivalent to 400 Wisdom in old system]
175 Wisdom = 112% resist
200 Wisdom = 125% resist [equivalent to 500 Wisdom in old system]
225 Wisdom = 131% resist
250 Wisdom = 137% resist
275 Wisdom = 143% resist
300 Wisdom = 150% resist [equivalent to 600 Wisdom in old system]
400 Wisdom = 160% resist
500 Wisdom = 170% resist
600 Wisdom = 180% resist
700 Wisdom = 190% resist
800 Wisdom = 200% resist [equivalent to 800 Wisdom in old system]

So, the first 100 Wisdom = 75% resist. Getting to 200 Wisdom = 125% resist (an additional 50% for +100 Wis). Getting to 300 Wisdom = 150% resist (an additional 25% for +100 Wis). After that point every additional 100 Wisdom = +10% resist.

After 300 Wisdom it takes 10 Wisdom for each additional 1% of resist.

The maximum base resist that you can have is 200% although casting Blinding Protection will increase it past this amount during battle.

I strongly feel that such a scale would both increase the capability of non-Wisdom specialized characters to resist the drain of characters with more Wisdom, and also it would make investing in more Wisdom decreasingly effective, as well as hard-capping its effect on drain to 200%. Having just a few Wisdom points in this system would be well worth it, and players who use Wisdom mainly for experience and resistance would be rewarded with better resistances per wisdom to a certain point.

I think the return of this 'sliding scale' would compliment this already well-thought-out system nicely.

By: Sljm - (2008-09-07 19:44:10)

I think some part of this is awesome that you take off theXelor's power because they're so powerful with their AP raping but i think they will be greatly diadvantage if u lower it down too you could just moderate everything up.............................. =)

By: Makenshi-SilverEtude - (2008-09-07 22:06:34)

Xelors do sucks bigtime. They all do is doing ap raping, reduce, etcs. It bores me out when I got in a group with Xelors. I am glad that Osa gets good updates. I, Myself have Osa.

People, stop complaining and accept the facts.

By: Dewized - (2008-09-08 05:47:00)

I had writed almost all comments up there and I noticed that all ppl that are upset are EVEN wis xelors.
Thank God Ankama makes this update bcs wis xelors in pvp are annoying. As high lvl iop I never can defend myself from wis xelors. I cant hit once in a fight. All they know to do is removing ap to 0-1 and attack u in cc in same turn, so I cant even defend myself intimidate (2 ap) them and run away. They are acting like gods of dofus that isnt a nice thing.
I saw also wis xelors doing like 900ish dmg per turn so pls dont complain about dmg.
In my opinion, Ankama had to do this update earlier and they have to analize wis eni too.

By: ciupaq - (2008-09-08 15:45:32)

Tis is the new formula for dofus resist from ap if yu are wis xelor?
0 Wisdom = 0% resist
25 Wisdom = 18% resist
50 Wisdom = 37% resist
75 Wisdom = 56% resist
100 Wisdom = 75% resist [equivalent to 300 Wisdom in old system]
125 Wisdom = 87% resist
150 Wisdom = 100% resist [equivalent to 400 Wisdom in old system]
175 Wisdom = 112% resist
200 Wisdom = 125% resist [equivalent to 500 Wisdom in old system]
225 Wisdom = 131% resist
250 Wisdom = 137% resist
275 Wisdom = 143% resist
300 Wisdom = 150% resist [equivalent to 600 Wisdom in old system]
400 Wisdom = 160% resist
500 Wisdom = 170% resist
600 Wisdom = 180% resist
700 Wisdom = 190% resist
800 Wisdom = 200% resist [equivalent to 800 Wisdom in old system]
And if it is it means we can stil use our spels vhat gives ap reduct(from mumy,or bilding protection?)
And if it is tro i hope yu dooooooo soooo goood thoings for xelor yu are doing only thet vhat we dont vant but not vhat we want!
yes plz give someting gooood ! or thees ubtates wil be only baaad!

By: VINER - (2008-09-08 16:47:51)

this is a great fault ur making, i as xelor have a good tactic tha'ts not overpowered but it involves closecombat use of xelors sandglass and slowdown. if the range changes. the xelor class wil be ALOT weaker than any other class AND you take their ability to rape AP so they'll be even weaker.

soon no one will be a xelor anymore...

By: safari-jawa - (2008-09-08 17:14:21)

To me instead of killing our spells and basically killing the point on being a xelor why not change the way that ap/mp resists are calculated. For instance instead of them being wis based why not make them class and lvl based. That way xelors still could have a boost at stealing ap and your not changing all our spells in the process. It would really promote the older builds of xelors. I think that would even things out better in PvP and MvP. although it would still be harder it wouldn't be impossible to adapt in my opinion.

By: seven-three - (2008-09-08 18:06:51)

To be honest i think this is stupid. I have recently changed up everyting on my level 74 osa to become agi xelor, and if this change thing really happens i will have no kamas and an xelor which i cant do anything with. This really isnt good, you wouldnt take away and osas summons or fecas shields would you? its the main part of the class. without ap rape xelors are NOTHING. Its basically deleting the xelor class in general...

By: muppet - (2008-09-08 19:30:51)

Ok really you need to leave xelors alone your making everyone better and keep nerfing us just keep us the same.... for one let us have a update that we dont get nerf cause i really dont think theres not point being a xelor cause what uv wrote there were gonna totally suck or you should actally pay us for all the time and everything we wasted building that xelor to be alwsome Cause iv scrolled 101 wisdom and 101 chance now ur making me reset cause u dont like it how we pwned u have totally just deleted our char osa can summon wtf ? they got better summonings and we cant ap rape xelors are ap rapers if we cant do that what can we do

From The-tin 14x xelor (scrolled stats) thanks dofus for making me reset and waste all my kamas doing it

By: headofsteel - (2008-09-09 00:25:16)

Hey god bless you, you guys know what you're doing.

By: Randomo - (2008-09-09 12:13:04)

All i can say is that if you ad the minimum range on ap raping spells it will make xelors not only weak in long range attacks but weak overall, becouse xelors have rly low long range dmg if i don`t use my hammer (that already will do 2x less dmg than close to any str weap and cost 3x more at lvl 100+) ill do sht for dmg heck i can even out dmg me with a sadida i personaly got two chars and have played with most off the clases i have a lvl 93 int/wis xelor and a 64dmg sadida when my xelor was at lvl 90 i could do more dmg with a lvl~60sadida sometimes even 4x more ant if i want the damage to be atleast 2x more (for the sadida) i have to get 1-0 squares away to use my hammer and the sadida does not even have to use a staff or a difrent close range weapon, it can use a random skill that i may remind you costs 3ap at lvl 101 while hand still costs 4ap and has low dmg personaly hand is like wasting ap without lvl 101 so if you wanna gimp the xelors remember sadidas or even iops srams about everyone can out dmg me at a low lvl even tho im using realy pricey gear... The only thing is y i play a xelor is b/c none of my guildies have good xelors (sadidas guild) and ap rape is usefull in some dungeons like lets say blop dungeon ^^ well anyway if your gonna gimp xelors to the max then lets talk about sadidas and sacriers, i`v got 280 hp on my xelor and a non gimp sacrier can 1shot me from lvl 70 easy and hes got like 1k+ hp easy? or even more theres apsolutly no way for me to do reasonable dmg to him if i could rape minimum 8 ap all the time from him then i could barely win but if id rape 3ap from him id be lucky im not even gonna start talking about sadidas, srams and such so if you wana rly gimp xelors to the max leave the minimum range and i bet that all the ppl who have a 50+xelor will quit being xelors.

By: GrimLT - (2008-09-09 13:33:45)

I like this new system, It gives every one eles a fighting chance. Also I'm sure a Xelor can AP steal to 1 - 2 AP still if there in a AP set like Powerful Dazzling Belt or Powerful Dazzling Cloak which means Wisdom Xelors will no longer be over powered in just Ancestral Set and will accully have to learn how to use strategy.

By: GimmeANickNameDarnIt - (2008-09-09 18:24:34)

Well... I take lvl 42 xelor in Spiritia and I stopped with this, if u change the xelors, u need to change all classes with new spells to benefit the others classes to balance it, a xelor need dmg in spells or critical hits to take more aps of PvP and PvM (slow downs, time thefts, etc etc). If Ankama Games make this, the xelors will make a special class because with the more specials spells of xelors with critical hit will alows to xelors take aps with using less ap. I think with this changes will make the others classes balanced. In the PvP win the class with more strategic than other.

By: MarquinhosCarioquinhaxD - (2008-09-09 18:59:37)

Oh well,this update basicly means we played dofus long enough. Its time to move on,to a game who doesnt fuck you up after you wasted 1 year to be the build you wanted to be. Warhammer here i come

By: IgotChance - (2008-09-09 19:17:56)

as a enutrof I really don't care but according to the lore of dofus xelors are long range fighters... isnt this a problem story wise too? I mean I have seen those short stuff with hammers (close range). Spells should be long range for the sake of the story. Maybe if you upgrade teleportion, make it less range but less ap and more cast per turn xelors can be like the awesome teleporters in the manga!

By: flashunter - (2008-09-10 08:29:50)

My appeal: Please Ankama, don't do it. And the plain simple reason, which is clear from these forums, is that you will make A LOT of people unhappy. much more than an occasional player who might like (?) those changes. Amongst the complainers, most are experienced, *paying* people, the real game hardcore fans and promoters.
So, for the sake of commercial sense, if 'unhappy players' > 'happy players', please don't push it forward. And I mean it.

By: LordGreySky - (2008-09-10 21:15:29)

My chars a feca 14x, and ive pvpd against xelors at my level before. Its hard but doable, all you need is tactics. Dont nerf xelors! I think the change in % probability calculations is enough. Nerf Sadidas! they do way too much spell damage and rape mp without any %s involved :P No wonder there is about 65 million people playing them right now....

By: Lish - (2008-09-12 00:17:15)

Yay, lets take away osas summons and fecas shields, also sac buff removing would be nice. Woo fucking hoo.

By: Sexmisuysinelja - (2008-09-13 00:00:02)

Ok, lets just get down to it like this. Xelor's Hourglass... it their job to control you time and your ability to do stuff. lets just make it so Iop's lose the ability to use buffs before attacking, or make it so Osa's can only have a max 1 summon at a time, maybe make it so with high int you can see through a srams invis, or how about an eni not be able to heal if the target has more vit than them , fecas only being able to hold up 2 shields at a time, sacs not getting a huge amount of vit so they can tank, and heck lets make a cra or have to be like 5 panels away to shoot an arrow, sadis should lose dmg combo, and make sylvan power unbewitchable and so pandas only get drunken state once a fight. I mean reall this is the worst nerf ive ever heard of. you are taking someone who is good at only one thing really and taking that away. i play a low lv xelor (lv. 104) and i made it to around lv 80 without caring for the ap rape aspect of a xelor. then i lernt thats what they are built for. and well i strongly disagree with this nerf. We do low dmg compared to other classes, and most builds end up with low hp as well. this nerf is ridiculous and is going to ultimently hurt the game play value. i study video game design and from the point of view that matters to you. Angry players = less players, less players = less money.... nuff said

By: Myrite - (2008-09-13 14:12:06)

I'd just like to say if u do this, ALOT of players will probably quit...including myself, therefore you lose lots of money off p2p players because if u nerf xelors that we have worked so hard on theres no point in working on another char..... Sorry but if u go through with this ill stop saying dofus is the funnest game ever to dofus is gay because there admins love to nerf every class every year

By: whodisbe - (2008-09-13 17:22:24)

well...after seein a 19x eca in full wis gear get raped to 0-1 every turn by a wis xelor 70 levels his junior (yes tahoo), nerf 'em i say...completely changes the pvp scheme

By: ATHEMAC - (2008-09-15 06:57:20)

u cant say that xelors are weak (in fact they are fierce) but xelors are definitely weak without their ap-raping....
so if you are thinking about PvP, add AP, MP dogdes to shields
taking away an xelor's ap-raping ability is definitely not fair for them
the game is best the way it is..

By: nitemare-xy - (2008-09-16 11:03:04)

'well...after seein a 19x eca in full wis gear get raped to 0-1 every turn by a wis xelor 70 levels his junior (yes tahoo), nerf 'em i say...completely changes the pvp scheme"

Bullshit,this is not even possible

By: IgotChance - (2008-09-16 16:34:36)

It appears to me that you're attempts to balance xelors are just going to make cras more underpowered and as their spells arent being changed I assume they wont be getting their points back for ap/mp spells. So what are the options? Reset them to wis or run otomai dungeons a million times to reset spells? Fun...

By: Ishtarlll - (2008-09-22 11:08:29)

you people obviously don't know your math, AP and MP rape are still very effective, the only up side is that you can't take 6 ap every turn, just more like 4 ap, your odds of taking AP is still very high, just do the math.

By: NeonSerge - (2008-09-22 15:46:44)

hey every body pls tell me were on the site i can download the new version of dofus(1.25) i cant manage to get in to the game with out it and i need it soon so pls tell me
Naveric D=

By: navric - (2008-09-23 08:38:07)

im so excited about dofus version 1.25.0 but how do you download it ive been searching for it for ages and do you know when dofus version 2.0 is coming out.

By: cheseball - (2008-09-23 08:43:26)

hey every body pls tell me were on the site i can download the new version of dofus(1.25) i cant manage to get in to the game with out it and i need it soon so pls tell me
Naveric D=

By: navric - (2008-09-23 08:44:12)

By: blackwinterhawk - (2008-09-23 09:33:59)

C'mon... You already made Xelor, and Enutrof spells less range. Why would you increase Ap/Mp doudge ? As i know Enutrof is much based on Mp rape, and now.. they can't Mp rape at all... Always doudge's all Mp's .. You just made WEAK class even weaker.
And.. IOP's now they can buff they'r Vitality up to 1000+.. Just standing behind tree and increaasing they'r vitality high.. Here you made STRONG class even stronger !!
At least change Ap/Mp doudge back to normal -.-

By: -xGarri - (2008-09-23 17:24:17)

xelors shouldnt be drain players ap to 0 + they can still hurt ppl while doing it.even srams go visible for 2 turns at least?(!) thats all about it. and maybe wis-chance gears very good than other hybrid gears. maybe ankama is overreacting but some balance should be done.maybe not like this but must be done.

By: oixOxio - (2008-09-24 22:51:39)

ok first of all the update has happened and in this update i have lost 10.2mili cause i scrolled wisdom and chance i dont really find that fair whos gonna replace the kamas i last for my build? 2nd there was no need to nerf xelors we still get beat by many classes were only good in 1 dungeon (bworker) i am a 152 xelor and i am pissed off i actally feel sorry for the 19x 18x
Thanks for making me waste my time and my kamas you B*****d

By: headofsteel - (2008-09-25 10:22:07)

This update make's people quit Dofus :)

By: -xGarri - (2008-09-25 15:12:10)

hey man, xelors were already weak to begin with, we lost against sadidas, fecas, cras, and now youve just taken away our only other aspect of the whole xelor aspect. WHY? i understand sandglass but why give it a 3 square minimum. jeez you guys just killed dofus. oh and one more thing;
"For the time being we've chosen this approach because the Xelor has two teleportation spells, one of which (Flight) has a very small AP cost, which will allow the Xelor to get away from a target that's too close without too much difficulty, before being able to more easily reduce the AP of its target."
good work ankama team, good work, teleportation might i remind you can only be used once and only once in a battle so great work, and need i might also remind you flight is for lvl 48 which i highly doubt a low lvl xelor such as myself shall ever achieve.
the only was to survive in any battle was to reduce your enemies ap below half, but because youve MADE it HARDER to survive in a game full of PKers and HIGH-sorry "more strategical" monsters for "future tactics".

By: FreD-tHE-GreAT - (2008-09-27 05:26:16)

xelors were already underpowered and now ur nerfing them? what really pisses me of is that at the same time they are buffing and already overpowered class (osomodas)

By: firagaomega - (2008-09-27 12:21:33)

Just deal with it, this game is all about strategy if you don't have any then sure you will lose.( You just can't move randomly and attack, you have to think ).
Also this game is good for your brain :) ( if you have one )

By: -xGarri - (2008-09-28 14:19:32)

well you just removed the only spell that had a chance at anything.
hey ankama team why dont you remove hand and make it 10 ap along side the next update, why dont you take away the 90% chance of gaining 1 ap from each spell, actually ive got a better idea for the next update...why dont you remove the entire class? we suck at doing any damage, we suck at a far range (now), we suck at close range (now) and now the class has become useless. to the people who are thinking of joining dofus actually you might as well add this to the description (xelors has no real ability just gains the "rare" +1 ap for each spell that they "attempt" to cast). what the hell you might as meld all the classes together and call it the universal class with nothing special. right now we xelor users are obselete, if your intentions were to stop xelors from playing dofus well then good job, claps to you because it worked on me.
well i might as well start now. PEOPLE OF DOFUS dont play dofus because eventually the ankama team will nerf every classes down to a pulp because "they want to make it "balance"" cras will have crapper range forcing them to go close range, fecas well its already happened, enus are really crap until lvl 26 even then they are crap, the panda people, well besides the cool emotes are crap, sadidas will most probably have all the spells delayed by 10 lvls, removing osas ability to summon, negating the sraams ability to set trap, deleting the iops teleporting ability and buffering spells, these changes im guessing will most probably happen if not already. the dofus site shall and most probably indeed look like this "cra description:...nothing special, just a standard class,
iops description: read previous,
xelor; read above etc"
Dofus was cool and now its dead, i predict that there will be a significant drop in xelors playing.
good day and good bye dofus is dead

By: The-Cordial-Kid - (2008-09-30 08:33:18)

hi yes you do bad system ap rape on xelor only on xelor eni with big wis rape better then me wis xelor how? do somethink with this or xelor lost sense play ....

By: Yuras - (2008-10-02 21:35:36)

can you help??

By: sfilip - (2008-10-04 08:28:07)

can you help

By: tupeccc - (2008-10-04 18:09:44)

It is a heavy price to pay for a lot of xelors based solely on there ability to steal ap to be powerful. it may be wise if this choice is made to offer not just points back on altered spells but also characteristic points back in order to allow people to rebuild their xelors. if wisdom becomes so important having spent all points on intelligence for instance up to a high level makes a xelor significantly weaker. Also xelor's are not particularly hard hitters in comparison to many classes and will struggle in PvP to administer tactics to beat another player that knows these new rules. Lastly teleport has a high AP cost and those players that are not a high enough level to have flight as an option for a spell will struggle to get the required distance from their adversary in order to remove AP. This means low leel xelor's will lose out in PvP. All classes have their strengths, xelor's need to hit harder if their main power is to be diminished.

By: lckhk-c - (2008-10-05 13:07:00)

can you make a change the spell /summon tofu/to some thing else?

By: crazycute - (2008-10-06 21:47:02)

man I keep wondering, why they nerf xelors so much xD
thank god I don't play a xelor anymore ^^
but to tell the truth, at mid range I'd say a wis xelor like I had still has 45% chance of stealing ap even after stealing 50% or more enemy's aps... let me show:

enemy with 9APs
after stealing 5APs

--- 200% dodge of mine
--- 100% dodge of the enemy (man I'm really givaway today, how would he have 100% fighting a xelor?) anyway...
--- DA = 200
--- DT = 100
--- PR = 4*100/9 = 44,44% (will say 45%, ok?)
--- 200/100*45/2

c'mon seems pretty good yet, we know with 10% chance of winning 1AP sometimes you get 2APs in a turn xD

By: LordWindgrace - (2008-10-13 12:40:16)

Não sei se vai resolver, postando um comentário em um tópico já passado e em Portugues!!!
Fico indignado com tais mudanças, acho uma falta de respeito com os jogadores Xelor!
Ainda mais agora que não podemos mais conjurar 2 ou mais ponteiros por turnos, estamos totalmente desnivelados com outras classes, como Fecas, Iop, Sadida, e até Osamodas agora.
Gostaria muito que vocês revessem esta mudança, principalmente esta ultima.

Pode não importar mas isto desmotiva MUITO nós jogadores das classes que sofrem mudanças. Não to nem afim de renovar minha p2p quando terminar, e já vi vários amigos mudarem de jogo por conta disso.

By: ccesar - (2008-10-28 20:45:55)

All this talk about xelors, now that they have been nerfed. Saidi's kick every's ass! They are by far too powerfull for there own good. I mean silvian Power + Earth Quake + Poison Wind leaves you completely screwed in pvp unless you have a high amount of hp, you should not be alowd to use these skills all in the same turn. You should have to silvian power the turn after you cast your poisons. Compaired to the xelors ap rape this is a far worse problem, and all this means is that nomatter how much dodge % you have you can still get ap raped by the next bigger xelor. Think about it, a level 54 saidi kill a level 90 sram but a level 54 xelor cannot come close to killing a level 90 sram. Its overkill.

By: ZygoTyra - (2008-11-18 09:37:39)

Ankama, i love u guys. U gave me the best game ever. I actually agree with the Xelor downgrading thing. Hope u guys will make more monsters for non suscribers. Keep up the creativity!

By: Glirimia - (2008-12-02 08:30:31)

thats the best game inthe world because the iop is the best of characters and the sadida too shes the best(dofus)

By: jijoji-ja - (2008-12-02 17:29:36)

ashole

By: rolloret - (2008-12-26 10:08:46)

its not fair cuse im lvl 37 xelor and i get beaten up by lvl 28s and lvl 23s...at least increase xelors dmg for doing that.

By: girbletina - (2008-12-31 14:56:24)

evreyone u have NO idea how poerful is an exor lvl 46...there extreamly powerful if some of u have xelors lvl 46 and there weak...cuse agilty xelors are the best...yep...if ur agi xelor lvl 46 is weak u most give it very high agi like getting a mad tofu cloak that gives 100 agi ( u can modify ur mad tofu cloak to do that) and more high agi stuff

By: dimentor - (2009-01-09 08:57:46)

u spelled powerful wrong and ill tell u the respe to make ur xelor lvl 36 hit 100 for 1 shivering and if u do 2 shivering ull do 200 dmg total...u can rule incaram with this resepie bwahahahahhahahaha here it comes:ull need toady set and mad tofu cloak and scara items and good tofu items. renember xelor rule incaram...oh and if u r in the server rosal and ur in incaram,with this ull be able to kill that cool eca lvl 63 called nine-immortalized.well he is th emite of incaram.

By: girbletina - (2009-01-09 09:05:13)

u mean elite..

By: dimentor - (2009-01-09 09:07:30)

omg i can't think any thing from what happening is right u make game sux really !! first sux update then i many ppl can't log more than 4 acct why is that u almost make game very bad many ppl quit why all that about u make that to make it better for us isn't that right but i am one from many ppl dont love that update osa become so powerfull and sadida and xelor too u kill some name feca sacri i loved old sacri and feca no comment about this update

By: -zx-Minay-- - (2009-04-10 16:49:29)

Come on!!! My poor little pure-intelligence level 11 PvM Xelor who no one cares about is now having the only thing that stops Boars from wrecking him with 30 damage per turn taken away!!!!!!!! What the F??? And to a guy who is named I think -xDeathx-, you think this is weeding out the weak? Are you crazy?? Back to my earlier point now: The thing that makes Xelors special is their so-called AP 'rape' that inexperienced players can't even do!!! Now you're just making them defenseless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The only reason we 'stand close to monsters and AP rape them' is because we have to! And for people like me, it's not even rape!!! You're just making low-level Xelors some of the weakest players in the game!!!!

By: DWKmaster - (2009-06-25 05:36:59)

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